Nyaa archive 1535180
[MTBB] Eizouken ni wa Te wo Dasu na! – Keep Your Hands Off Eizouken! - 04 (BD 1080p)
Saved on 2022-09-07 06:00:27. This copy includes the description and comments available at capture.
Description
The typesetting in GJM's Eizouken is obviously amazing and elevates the experience of watching it. In general, though, it's difficult to keep up a level of TS this high for a weekly show without causing delays. Although it's harsh to say, when there are delays in a weekly show, the people doing the delaying (as well as the project manager who enables them) are wasting the work of the people who did their work on time—or less controversially, they are causing fewer people to see and enjoy said work.
As an example, there's a certain line in 04 that differs drastically from CR's translation. It's one of the best lines in the show and makes for a poignant moment. But if the TS had significantly delayed the episode (it hadn't—things were more or less on time until episode 6), then a lot of people would have watched Crunchyroll instead, since in the end, viewers just want to watch the damn anime. Potentially thousands fewer would have experienced that beautiful line/moment.
As a project manager, I personally try to maintain a reputation for timeliness so that people are more likely to wait for my releases and benefit from the work I put into them.
Of course, there's no denying that timely releases will sometimes mean lower-quality releases. It's perfectly valid to paraphrase Miyamoto and say that "a delayed release is eventually good, but a rushed release is forever bad." In the specific instance of Eizouken, surely shikawa's TS work was worth the year-long delay. But the other side of the "eventually good" philosophy is that a delayed release now may impact your ability to make good releases of other shows in the future. The script team(s) may have bandwidth that you're not utilizing because everything's permanently @ TS. Nintendo wouldn't have been able to make Majora's Mask without cutting corners (reusing assets), Miyamoto be damned.
To be clear, I'm not trying to say that speed is good and TS quality is bad. Fansubber project managers just need to be thinking about these issues and figuring out what their goal is. In this episode, we see Kanamori being a great project manager, but her goal is essentially set for her: the project needs to ship by a certain date, and so she can focus all her efforts on making that happening without worrying about whether sacrificing quality is the "right thing to do" or not. We don't have hard deadlines, so we can do whatever we want—sacrifice timeliness and release exposure for TS quality, or the opposite. But we should at least know what we want.
Comments 27
get a blog bob
bob
Fyurie gonna come in here and cry again.
Legitimately interesting blog post here. Don't even care that I read it on Nyaa instead of an actual blog.
Don't think there's a right or wrong answer per se. I think it ultimately depends on the show being subbed and therefore the demand, the reputation of the group behind the subs and therefore the knowledge of how quality the final product turns out, and the patience of the viewer itself. Of course I have no way to back this up, but I would guess that a good amount of people who are waiting for a specific group to sub a show are not going to stop watching said group's release if they decide to watch official subs in the case of wanting to watch what's airing. Some would certainly, but I'm not sure it's a huge amount.
In the case of Eizouken, I watched that anime twice in the time it took to watch it a third time once they finished that release. I had no problems with that. Not just because Eizouken is that good IMO, but because GJM's work is that good that I could dive right back in. I guess to also use GJM as an example since that's what we're going with here, 22/7 is so-dogshit-its-funny, but I am patiently waiting for their release to finish because it's evident it'll be by far better than the official translation. As far as I can remember, PAS is another group that took a long while with releases on occasion, but the end result was very often worth it. (Maybe I'm misremembering how long they took?)
In any case, it's certainly food for thought. In the end, I don't blame GJM at all for taking a long time with their releases, even if it ultimately could be seen in some regard as a disservice to the viewer because of the length between releases. Could there be some better middle ground? Almost certainly. But I think it's not a huge loss. There's plenty of other anime to go through in the meantime, airing or backlog. (Even if I'm still waiting on Virtual-san to finish; but then, I've already seen that twice, so I'm okay with waiting.) (Didn't realize Nyaa had such a short character limit.)
h
I've said this before and I'll say it again: anime is not high literature. You're not working on Temple of the Golden Pavilion, you're working on a show that is likely adapted from comics or YA novels written by a socially maladjusted manchild. Unless the official translation is full of genuine mistranslations (not just localization rage and the like) the marginal benefit of waiting months and months to watch a show is low. And to the crayon-eating morons who think fansubbers are better than official, it depends on the translator. Some are much better than others.
While I'm at it, typesetting is a huge meme. Typesetting has never made the difference between whether a show was good or bad. If I translated something and then some retarded typesetter took months to perfectly typeset it I would be pissed. Nobody except other typesetters cares about that shit.
If we're making requests here, while we're at it, can you fansub Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters? Thanks!
Typesetting is the ultimate soy shit added by fansubbers (looking at you GJM TS'ers). Honestly, can't think of any show I've ever watched with actual good typesetting that I frankly would've given a better outlook because of it. Just stick to coming out with a good script, readable English, and nice memes to make it entertaining. Other than that, fuck off I'm not waiting for your dogshit release lol. Keep up the great job Dr. bob.
It will have to get in line behind the TLC'd release of Xam'd I've been grumbling about for years.
You know that people sometimes watch shows that are years old, right? Not everyone is only watching seasonal shit and ignoring everything else.
Partially true, but this ignores the fact that fansubs today are 90% of the time based on the official scripts, so your point is moot. They are an improvement by their own nature.
Based
So this... is the power... of fansubs. Might as well remove the "sub" part and just call them fan edits lmfao.
Why? There's a lot that goes into "subtitles," you know? It's not like they call themselves "fantranslators" or anything.
When it comes to shows I actually care about, I will wait for a quality release even it if takes a year or two without nagging, and will not watch an inferior version (especially if I've already read the source material so I know how the story goes). I like my first experience to be the best it can be; impatient shits can go and watch simulcasts for all I care. I have a never-ending backlog anyway, there's always something to watch in the meantime.
These days I'm basically on Nyaa solely for motbob's blog posts.
I think you are greatly overvaluing your fansub reach. A couple of hundred people at best might watch the Eizouken release instead of rushing to CR.
All the pirated streaming sites will always upload CR because they just grab the fastest released one through a bot anyway.
I personally believe that what GJM does is fine if it means waiting a few months at best, but that's just my preference. Also, I'd be significantly more supportive if they worked on their BD batches, but that doesn't happen so we're stuck with the web release of the subs. A rushed release with lower quality typesetting becomes even less ideal in this case.
Regarding Guncannon, I partially disagree. There are a few genuinely great shows (I'm mostly thinking about some of Yuasa's production, but also the long gone Satoshi Kon) that deserve a good release.
And quality is ultimately an exquisitely subjective metric to judge. Fansubbers just work on the stuff that they enjoy and that's it really. But in a sense I agree that, to me, most of the stuff that gets animated or even drawn/written is extremely low quality, to begin with.
I disagree with your stance on typesetting though. A few shows get great improvement from proper typesetting. Monogatari as a whole, komi san, even kaguya. The harder the typesetting the greater the improvement.
EDIT: Moreover, OTLs are used if the official subs are bad, so I wouldn't count them out. Especially from GJM.
As far as we know, he actually never said that quote. It's more likely that it's a paraphrased version of this statement from a 2001 interview or was said in the 90s but the original interview never made it online.
Anyways this was a nice read, get a blog motbob.
nise when?
I'm on the toilet rn.
Thanks!
fansubbers aren't even competing with official subs anymore lmao they're weirdo niche nerd shit that like 40 people watch
i don't really think numberfagging is a major factor on anyone's mind when it comes to fansubbing at this point. i'm sure some people are a little disappointed with their nyaa download numbers, but at this point it's pretty clear that the people who still fansub are extremely dedicated and passionate about their craft. sure, they like knowing that they're at the top of their niche, but anybody who cares that much about popularity stopped fansubbing when simulcasts became a thing several years ago.
Who is this Guncannon guy seething to himself about people putting effort into things they care about
@Interruptor:
You seem to be off by an order of magnitude when the original torrent has over 2700 completes. Even if we look at a current show, ep5 of Kaguya-sama, it has over 400 completions in two days despite being two weeks behind airing. The work of the "late" releasers is available after the show is over. I didn't get around to seeing Eizouken until long after airing, but at that point was there any reason to grab a CR-ripper when the release by [knowngoodfansubber] is available?
This torrent has 134 completions now, not counting any downloads on re-hosting on file lockers or XDCC bots, and it's essentially a re-release of GJM's work. That's "a couple hundred people" on top of the original's numbers, and the work here will move into derivative releases by other BD rippers.
That number is highly deceptive though. Most people are downloading stuff from Nyaa, and the other BD release are probably getting downloaded by quite a lot of people who are archiving a better release of a show they already watched. Moreover, GJM's Kaguya still has just 400 downloads and it's considered a typesetting marvel. I'd say for a great release that you're around a few thousand downloads over the years, and that doesn't get impacted that much if you stall an episode for a few months anyway.
not only that those numbers are just hilarious and laughable compared to when people actually cared about fansubs
Yeah, this isn't the 10,000+ number people used to see for a fansub release, but part of that is just the nature of how anime consumption has changed compared to 10-15 years ago. There was no Crunchy/Funi/HiDive providing easy simulcast access to anime then either, everything was "get it on the high seas" and the video had to be capped and (etc, etc). So everyone was watching the fansubs. Now, we have to subtract the people who want to pay for their anime and the people who really aren't that hung up on fancy typesetting. Remember that decades ago people were happy with the rudimentary tools of VHS captioning to print the dialog translation so they wouldn't have to read a script on paper, today there are people casual enough in their consumption CR rips are fine and they can be willfully ignorant of that little written label on Asakusa's map.
With simulcasting anime has moved more in line with western TV where watching something when it's new is more important than presentation. Heck, I love the Kaleido-GJM joint of SpyxFamily but I've moved to watching on Hulu now with the delays.
There's still an audience for fansubs when nothing else exists. But expectations now need to be adjusted to what watchers really care about and other avenues of availability. Doesn't make the effort worthless. I wouldn't dismiss the downloads for "archiving a better release". I started a rewatch of Sakura Quest this weekend, with Nii-sama's release rather than the HorribleSubs I originally saw it in. The effort wont go unnoticed.